As India mulls its strategic response to the acts of War unleashed upon it, Offstumped compiles some of the best of New York Times columnist on Strategic Affairs, Tom Friedman, in the immideate aftermath of 9-11.
When our imagination failed us – Terrorism Game Theory
That 19 people would take over four civilian airliners and then steer three of them into buildings loaded with thousands of innocent people was, I confess, outside the boundary of my imagination. The World Trade Center is not the place where our intelligence agencies failed. It is the place where our imaginations failed.
Naturally, when our imaginations fail us in such a shocking way, there is a tendency to push out the boundaries so far that we see threats everywhere and become paralyzed
What we know of these terrorists is that they were evil, educated and suicidal. That is a combination I have never seen before in a large group of people. People who are evil and educated don’t tend to be suicidal (they get other people to kill themselves). People who are evil and suicidal don’t tend to be educated.
?Their terrorism is not aimed at reversing any specific U.S. policy. Indeed, they made no demands. Their terrorism is driven by pure hatred and nihilism, and its targets are the institutions that undergird America’s way of life, from our markets to our military
Americans were really only able to defeat Big Tobacco when whistleblowers within the tobacco industry went public and took on their own industry, and their own bosses, as peddlers of cancer. Similarly, the only chance to really defeat these nihilistic terrorists is not just by bombing them. That is necessary, but not sufficient, because another generation will sprout up behind them. Only their own religious communities and societies can really restrain and delegitimize them.
?In 1978 there were 3,000 madrasas in Pakistan; today there are 39,000. It was disquieting because their almost entirely religious curriculum was designed by the Mogul emperor Aurangzeb Alamgir, who died in 1707. .. The real war for peace in this region, though, is in the schools. Which is why we must do our military operation against bin Laden quickly and then get out of here. When we return, and we must, we have to be armed with modern books and schools — not tanks.
Filed under: Uncategorized, War on Terror
In his 25 July column, Friedman wrote against the “excuses” made by terrorists or apologists who blame their actions on third-party influences or pressures.
After every major terrorist incident, the excuse makers come out to tell us…why the terrorists acted. These excuse makers are just one notch less despicable than the terrorists and also deserve to be exposed. When you live in an open society like London, where anyone with a grievance can publish an article, run for office or start a political movement, the notion that blowing up a busload of innocent civilians in response to Iraq is somehow “understandable” is outrageous. “It erases the distinction between legitimate dissent and terrorism” Mr. Rubin said, “and an open society needs to maintain a clear wall between them.”
“In 1978 there were 3,000 madrasas in Pakistan, today there are 39,000. It was disquieting because their almost entirely religious curriculum was designed by the Mogul emperor Aurangzeb Alamgir, who died in 1707.”
Some might see this as bad news, I say its great news. Let the pakis turn their country into jihadistan, let them become a version of afghanistan or sudan. the more radicalized they become the better so that when you see paki men, you see a sea of beards, and paki women, just those blue afghani chaddars. They see our moderation as our weakness and are using against us, well lets use their weakness against them i.e. their extremism. Pakistan does not have natural resources to get wealthy off, only resource it has are it’s people, and there is no better way of destroying generations then denying them genuine education. thank you, wahhabi saudia arabia.
I have a small suggestion. What we need is a law to deal with terrorism, whereby all those who knew of the plot and who remained silent like sabeel of glasgow bombing and those who actively support the terrorist operation should be stripped of citizenship and citizenship rights. consequently their residence, employment etc., should be subject to constant surveillance. They would not be eligible for any government benefits. All their assets shall stand confiscated. They can be given option to choose any other country to emigrate and their passport on emigration should be cancelled.
Just an idea for the Indian police, from their Colombian counterparts. Both face the same problems, of politicians being in bed with the anti-social elements, whether it be Drug Lords or Terror Groups.
from wikipedia
—–
Los Pepes (from Spanish: Perseguidos por Pablo Escobar, “people persecuted by Pablo Escobar”), was a short-lived vigilante group composed of various enemies of narcotics kingpin Pablo Escobar. Los Pepes waged a bloody war against Escobar and his associates in the early 1990s.
There are reports that Los Pepes had ties to members of the Colombian National Police, with whom they exchanged information in order to execute their activities against Escobar.
Los Pepes is also strongly tied to Centra Spike, a covert ops group that was heading, in large part, the hunt for Pablo Escobar.
————
Los pepes, was essentially a vigilante force, made up of police officers, that couldnt target Drug lords (or in our case terrorists) out in the open due to their political backing, but could operate freely under the guise of a armed vigilante group, sorta like salwa judum. There are many things that could go wrong, lets just hope it doesnt come down to this.
Exonerate and free DGP Vanzara !
I hearsay that our intelligence is made up of IPS officers SELECTED by the government????
Anybody, with further info on this one?
if this is true , I am not surprised at this dismal performance of our intelligence.
First of all DE POLITICIZE THE POLICE FORCES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY….
Our Police forces are FORCED to behave a watchmen to the politicians.
Can anyone explain me wat would be the pros and cons of having a federal agency to tackle terrorism cos it was in news that centre is pondering thoughts over it and as a common man i feel it would be better if we have a FBI like agency..Correct me if am wrong..
>>Exonerate and free DGP Vanzara<<
This won’t happen until the filthy gutter blood of SECULAR PIGS is made cheaper than the drain water. 1000 Teestas for one Vanzara. All these blasts would stop when these secular anti national traitors and LIBERTIANS and families are hit hard
This is war on India. Guys let us unite like never before. We Hindus have to fight for our very survival.
Yossarin,
Kindly write an article analysising the bullshit “Indian Mujahideen” has written. I begin to get a feeling, although naive it may seem, that Congress party members(particularly from the minorities) must have had prior knowledge. The entire state of Gujarat had been targetted.
Any more Secular crap from MSM shouldn’t be tolerated. If required we should take to streets and protest the laxity shown by the Centre in tackling terror.
Save my India. Save our India.
YossBoss my request is not to moderate now. Moderation is not required. The cowards and press pros****tes have to be taken headlong.
I dont understand one thing, investigations are on how come the media is airing:
1. Information on a cell phone number from where a call was made and words used ” BHAI KAAM HO GAYA”
2. Mumbai ATS traces the IP address from where email was sent and the media goes and interviews the entire locality.
3. The blast which took place at Civil hospital , they found a number plate of the car and already the media has started saying that it was stolen car.
WTF, this CNN style reporting makes me puke….
If we can watch, so can the no good arm pit smelling SOB jihadis?????
Else, the dhimmedia and the secularists are ensuring that these jihadis get the desired info…..
Guys B-Raman has become a porpoganda tool in the hands of jihadis,
Insted of condeming the terrorist he is trying to find fault with our criminal justice system.
Congress has been trying to protect the terrorist from last four years, look at what happened to the killers of 200 people on bombay train nothing, congress asked the mumbai police to go slow and soft.
Today, terror stained soil of Gandhi’s Gujarat: Modi
Terrorists who are waging a “war against India” will not succeed, Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi declared here Saturday and appealed to the people to stay calm after a series of bomb blasts here killed 29 people.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Modi is making the right noises and the right moves – has not and will not allow any riots to happen in Gujarat ! He is assuming the role of “a Statesman” – leaving the villification role to Advani and other BJP leaders – who will happily target the PM and Sonia for the terrorist attacks and lower their own dignity even further !!!!
RoW..
You are no less then a Jihadi sympathizer, may be cops are watching your ass….
There is shred of doubt now, that local Muslims in Gujarat are involved.
They must be identified and tortured so that they dont shiver even looking at the alphabet “J”.
All madarassas,mullhahs must be put under permanent surveillance. Fugg the civil liberties they dont deserve it.
Turncoats, thats what they are….
Jiggs, just ignore the guy, ‘Row’ just another liberal Indian, who will realize the role of congress and secular parties role in fueling the terrorism through their policy, only after when it will directly heat him, Sorry to say.
Jiggs, w.r.t comments on civil liberty, it’s pertinent to remember the quote, “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” by Jefferson.
However, something should be done! Where the hell is an anti-terrorist law? Which self-respecting country, especially one that’s been at the forefront of terrorism, and a country which AFAIK is now the nation with most deaths due to terrorism does not have an anti-terror law!!!! God sometimes politics does make me puke.
Prasanna…
A car full of explosives have been found in Surat.
This car too has Baroda registration, most probably they will be stolen.
In context of civil liberties and the jefferson quote.
When the first serial blasts happenned in Mumbai after 1992-93 riots, do you know the motive behind those blasts?
The motive was to show the Hindus that them muslims are still live and kicking….
Read the book Black friday. Pls. read it without fail.
The point is that I firmly believe that if you are from the sub continent, the joint family values are instilled in you and so if some member of the family takes and important decision to bomb somebody or say blow him selves up, the family will have an inkling about this and stop it, they must inform the authorities.
It is such cases civil liberties and attached nice cities must be dropped.
Boss…they care fugg about the country, they are not even major tax payers and are enjoying all EQUAL benefits.
There has to be a mechanism wherein individuals will have to be classified by their tax paying abilities.
All I can say in my eyes they are second class citizens and must be treated like that.
http://freedemocracy.blogspot.com/2007/07/thomas-l-friedman-at-theater-near-you.html
This was written by Tom Friedman after one Bangalore ‘educated’ Muslim Doctor bombed British Airport. His last words say it all:
“If Muslim leaders don’t remove this cancer — and only they can — it will spread, tainting innocent Muslims and poisoning their relations with each other and the world.”
Indian Psuedos, media CANNOT save Jehadis for long. Its time Indian Muslims wake up and start taking action before its too late.
Else, what Friendman profesized is going to happen, if not already.
“The point is that I firmly believe that if you are from the sub continent, the joint family values are instilled in you and so if some member of the family takes and important decision to bomb somebody or say blow him selves up, the family will have an inkling about this and stop it, they must inform the authorities”.
Thus the sins of the father are passed on to the son? By your logic Jiggs, any crime perpetuated in India then the entire family is guilty by association if they do not stop the crime from happening. So why just stop at terrorism then? Why not include crimes like rape, arson, looting, murder and even petty thefts like robbery?
Yes you are right about the reasoning for the first serial blasts in Mumbai. I have read the book (and watched the movie) Black Friday. I do agree that the perpetrators of the incident were exactly thinking on the lines you’ve metioned.
Now, if people were to be classified on the basis of the tax we pay…then Azim Premji with a worth of about $14.2 billion would be the highest tax-payer in the country. Therefore in front of him, wouldn’t you be a 2nd class citizen? The analogy is weak but I hope it demonstrates the folly of discrimination on the basis of economic conditions.
That being said, a society is judged on how it treats is 2nd class citizens.
I am in IN NO WAY condoning stern action that should be taken, lest bloggers say that I am soft. LKA himself said in the motion of confidence speech, “Terrorism has no religion and terrorists do not belong to any religious community. Therefore, action against the terrorist will not annoy any community. It will not”. It is upto the government to decide in which way they should act. All I ask is that they follow Nietzche’s line “Those who fight monsters should take care that they never become one. For when you stand and look long into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you”.
Dude…That link on ‘Terrorism game theory’ doesn’t load. Please rectify.
Prasanna…
You got me wrong:
“Thus the sins of the father are passed on to the son? By your logic Jiggs, any crime perpetuated in India then the entire family is guilty by association if they do not stop the crime from happening. So why just stop at terrorism then? Why not include crimes like rape, arson, looting, murder and even petty thefts like robbery?”
I MEANT HERE THAT THE FAMILY MUST PRE-EMPT AND STOP THIS BY REPORTING TO THE AUTHORITIES, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT HAULIN IN THE ENTIRE FAMILY
“then Azim Premji with a worth of about $14.2 billion would be the highest tax-payer in the country. Therefore in front of him, wouldn’t you be a 2nd class citizen? The analogy is weak but I hope it demonstrates the folly of discrimination on the basis of economic conditions.”
LOOK FOR ME AZIM PREMJI MIGHT BE ELECTED BY THE BJP AS A FUTURE PRESIDENT OF INDIA. WHAT I MEAN HERE IS NOT PEOPLE LIKE AZIM PREMJI OR SAY DR KALAM, I MEANT HERE IS SCUM OF THE MUSLIM SOCIETY.
You will agree with me that 10 to 15 % of the Muslim population in India believes in the hardline Jihadi mentality…now do your math and tell me what is 10 % of 190 million.
Mate you got me wrong, I said is to differentiate on basis of tax receipts. You could pay 1000 rs and be of some service to the nation. Here what is happening is that majority of muslims dont pay any taxes , by this I mean not the intelligesia but the AAM AADMI muslim as they are directed to pay ZAKAT by the mullahs.
Mate..there has to been an audit of the money that is gettin spent especially on muslims, coz if this money is getting diverted to madarssas instead of development, then stop it completely.
You might call me a hard headed individual, but what I am talking about are the ground realities.
Muslims themselves are to blame for this crisis, they have never tried to assimilate themselves in our republic at the same time , they have been whining about the step motherly treatment meted out to them, THIS HAS TO STOP….U are the seeing the result of this appeasement tactics.
Please dont mix great men like Azim premji / Dr. kalam or the numerous muslim engineers from South India who are more rabid indians then what I am to the ones I am trying to tell you….
Please read last para as:
Please dont mix great men like Azim premji / Dr. kalam or the numerous muslim engineers from South India who are more rabid indians then what I am, to the ones I am trying to tell you…
PS: I am trying to find a link to the mail the Indian Mujahideen sent yesterday minutes for the blast, it all over the telly, I cant find it on website…
It starts with:
You Hindus have been subjugated with the muslim rulers for centuries, you shud not forget that and stop attacking muslims…..
Mate…This is the kind I was trying to point out to you.
AS OUR GOVERNMENT SAYS” REMEMBER TERRORISM HAS NO RELIGION”, why is it called Jihad then?
I will post the text of that email as soon as it appears on the net…..
Got the terrorism Game theory article from google. Read all 3 articles you published. Brilliant! Just wonderful insightful articles. Now i know why Friedman is so well respected.
From another forum analyzing the seris of blasts over the years.
‘Brilliant’ is the only word that comes to mind.
They would not have organized everything in 2 days – they have been doing these for over a century. Also, I understand the disbelief at the sheer inhumanity of it, but consider what they have been doing in the past few weeks (no, I don’t make any distinction between CPI(M), CPI(ML), CPI(MLN) etc. All commies).
In AP, they ambushed a law enforcment team as they were crossing a lake, firing a guided missile (they say RPG but I doubt it, the accuracy was too good) into a boat, then machine-gunning the survivors, maybe kidnapping and torturing to death many of them.
A week later, they blew up a bus carrying law enforcement personnel, killing another few dozen people.
What they do routinely to the villagers in these parts, does not even make it to the news, but if you check SATP.org (south asia terrorism portal) you will be horrified just by the factual reporting there.
The point is, there is NO awareness of this worsening state of war, among the middle class of India away from these war zones, which now cover the entire northeast and most of East India, plus Chattisgarh and even parts of Maharashtra and Kerala.
Have you seen any serious media attention to the totality of this situation?????
The city-dwellers are simply clueless, and now the war is moving into the cities. The Communists have always been moving towards “Lal Kile Par Lal Nishan”. From 2004 until last week they actually reached within spitting distance, now they are enraged that they have been maneuvered out by more cunning politicians than they, using their own stupidity, so now they are showing their rage through their usual means of expertise.
The anti-Muslim bigotry that blinds far too many Indians (and westerners) serves as a perfect smokescreen for the Communists to take over India. It’s right there before our eyes, yet we refuse to see it. Islamic terrorism is no doubt a very dire threat to national security and integrity, but that threat is dwarfed IMO by the Communist threat, and these are both very much in cahoots because they are both anti-humans both want to destroy freedom and take over the world.
No argument from me against the reality that Islamists and Communists have joined forces. Look at Kerala, Phillippines, Thailand, BD-border NE India, or the USA (“south asians”) In the US, we know very well of the ISI-funded (per Pakistani newspapers!) “Kashmir Alliance” and “Kashmir Researchers” and “Pakistan-American Association” and FOSA, FOIL, YSS, NRI-SAHI, IMC, CAIR, AID-India (with direct ties to the Marxist-Leninist / Maoists in Bihar), Vaishnava Center for Enlightenment, Sterling Associates, California Institute of Integral Studies, the SIMI’s founder, the Khalistanis, the ICA, the ASHA, the PRC-funded Oberlin Foundation, and any number of other scams.
Ironically, BOTH Islamist Shariahstan and Commie Gulagstan are rising in popularity among the stupid youth of India, who appear destined to vote for their own enslavement.
And more…
The Surat discovery indicates further to me that someone is out to create communal riots. Note that the bombs that actually went off were (relatively) minor. Now the best way to provoke riots is to have a few “unexploded bombs” discovered, CLEARLY POINTING to certain sources. Explosive is cheap and the commies and pakis all have tons of it available.
What are people to think? I mean, the UNEXPLORED BOMB with the clear evidence, shows the absolutely genocidal nature of certain sections of society, hey? People are now going to rationalize: Why wait any more to kick them all out, dead or alive, etc?
This may be exactly what the real killers want happening. Amplify the few dozen deaths of innocents that they perpetrated, into several thousand deaths of innocents and the destruction of society and the nation.
It MAY be real evidence, or it may be a bloody cynical frameup. Hope there is clear-headed investigation, because now it is absolutely urgent to find the REAL killers and eliminate them. Good thing the Army is already out in Gujarat this time – Shri Modi’s government deserves full credit for learning hard lessons from 2002 and responding so fast.
Wow. The commies are more than capable of such evil. And they’ve tied up with bith the islamists and the church whenever it suits their needs. The war on India by the leftists must first be handily defeated before anything else can proceed.
Guys,
see how the dogs are trying to attack their CONGRESS masters.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Mukesh_Ambani_figures_in_Indian_Mujahideens_e-mail/articleshow/3289992.cms
There’s not a seperate entity exists as “moderate” muslims. Its just an illusion, which all of us don’t even think before buying it.
imo. Congis’/Psecs’ projection of anti-terror laws as anti-muslim is quite justified, given the fact that they are the ones who paraded OBL lookalike to “re-assure” the already assured votes. Did we hear any opposition at all from this so-called moderates for this. A Big NO.
Even a Namo may not be enough at this already critical situation. Geert Wilders is whom we need at the moment.
Sud…
Thanx bro..for that satp link…
I was reading the POTA act, lookit, it is required desperately today…
The Prevention of Terrorism Ordinance, 2001
The Prevention of Terrorism Act, enacted on March 28, 2002, replaced the Prevention of Terrorism Ordinance (POTO) 2001. The Act has now come into force after the President of India gave his assent.
http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/document/actandordinances/POTO.htm
msr…
I think this is a smoke screen to hoodwink us gullible Hindus.
Dhimmedia and Govt. are in cahoots and trying to help the godammned perpetrators.
This is the challenging the lot us BJP supporters.
This calls for martial law being implemented and let loose the Indian army onto these PIGS….
Just listening to the likes of Ramachandra Guha say that “terrorism is a price that we have to pay for being a democracy” makes my blood boil. These liberals and congis are living proof of reincarnation. No one could possibly get to be so mind-numbingly stupid in just one lifetime.
What pisses me off is that this time THE PEACEFUL ISLAM JIHAD was perpetrated on HOSPITALS !!!!!
I want the fugging Psec brigade to explain this first…
The largets number of deaths in Ahmedabad happened yesterday outside the trauma ward of the Civil Hospital.
Peaceful Islam…my ass….
I heard Congress Mouth Piece Burqa Dutt, as usual she spoke of the resilience of the people in wake of such strikes and the normal crap.
I fail to understand what makes people like her tick??
Teesta setalvad, the pan chewing,self styled SICKULARIST was on the telly earlier today, again, people shud calm, terror strikes are bad but the perpetrators have no fugging religion.
Mate…I feel ashamed..The Hindus in Jammu are the ones with balls…still driving home the point, that WE WONT GO DOWN WITHOUT A FIGHT….
When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle – Edmund Burke
And this one for Shivraj Patil and the UPA:
Public life is a situation of power and energy; he trespasses against his duty who sleeps upon his watch, as well as he that goes over to the enemy – Edmund Burke
Jiggs,Yossarin,
cann’t we send some mass e-mails and sms messages to all the Hindu brethern who are sleeping for so many years, so that they can wake up, go out and vote for BJP, so that they can save their families and properties from Congress and their Jihadi friends.
because if we send mass e-amils over the internet atleast some people will join us.
and also Yossarin can you please request every one who visits this blog, to post their views, that way, WE can send a message to communal networks like JIHAD TIMES(HINDUSTAN TIMES), PAKISTAN EXPRESS(INDIAN EXPRESS), TIMES OF JIHAD(TIMES OF INDIA),THE MUSLIM(THE HINDU), COMMUNAL NEWS NETWORK- ITALIAN BAHU NETWORK(CNN-IBN),NO DEFINITION TV(NDTV).
>>Jiggs, just ignore the guy, ‘Row’ just another liberal Indian, who will realize the role of congress and secular parties role in fueling the terrorism through their policy, only after when it will directly heat him, Sorry to say.<<
HEY HE IS NOT A LIBERAL INDIAN. HE IS A VERY FASCIST, IDIOTIC BANGALI AMRA BANGALI MF FROM THE GUTTER WB.
HEY DON’T YOU KNOW THE SAYING ” 2 BONGOS ARE A MOB AND 3 BONGOS A SEPARATE NATION” SO HE IS NOT EVEN AN INDIAN. HE IS A PARASITE, GUESS DR BANGALI, SPECIALIST IN “FISTULAS AND PILES”
>>and also Yossarin can you please request every one who visits this blog, to post their views, that way, WE can send a message to communal networks like JIHAD TIMES(HINDUSTAN TIMES), PAKISTAN EXPRESS(INDIAN EXPRESS), TIMES OF JIHAD(TIMES OF INDIA),THE MUSLIM(THE HINDU), COMMUNAL NEWS NETWORK- ITALIAN BAHU NETWORK(CNN-IBN),NO DEFINITION TV(NDTV).<<
I HAVE DONE THIS MANY TIMES WITH CHAIN MAILS BUT NO EFFECT. THEY ALL ARE SHAMELESS, DEBAUTCHED DRUNKARD MOTHER SELLERS. THE ONLY WAY TO HIT THEM IS JUST BOMBARDING THEM WITH A SINGLE STATEMENT ON EVERY SO CALLED “NEWS”.
JUST WRITE “GO AND LICK THE POT OF YOUR WHITE MASTER BECAUSE THAT IS THE ONLY THING YOU CAN DO”
Hey RoW were you guarding the enterance while the terrorists enjoyed the “hospitality” at your home for last two days. By the way who is that hag Burqa Dutt (sic) and the catamite Pronoy Roy enetertaining. You must be knowing better, and how many rings for ears and nose were given to you for your ANTI-NATIONAL SERVICE, by other BONGO BANDARS OF MAINO MAFIA PRONOY ROY AND SOOGOOROKOO GOST
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