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Differentiating the New Big Tent from Progressives

What is wrong with the below questions ?

CNN-IBN – Will America elect a Black President ?

The Telegraph – Tears for film and verse, not a drop for riots ?

Let us pose these questions in a different way.

Can America elect a President being blind to his skin color ?

Was Mr. Advani guilty of not upholding the rule of law when riots took place ?

In the difference between these two sets of questions on the same issue lies the distinction between the New Big Tent with Justice as its bedrock and Progressivism with “Victimhood and Guilt” as its bedrock.

The second set of questions were mainly concerned if there was Justice independent of identity and independent of the circumstances.

The first set of questions however were mainly concerned with emotional tokenism that cared more for how one felt about the outcome from the point of view of victimhood or guilt.

That friends is the fundamental distinction.

The Shveta Chhatra is about giving the Aam Admi the comfort and confidence that the Rule of Law will be enforced at all times to prevent Riots and that the Rule of Law will be upheld at all times so no guilty evades justice.

The Shveta Chhatra is about giving the Aam Admi the security and confidence that the Rule of Law will be enforced at all times to prevent Riots and that the Rule of Law will be upheld at all times so no guilty evades justice.

The Shveta Chhatra is also about the openness of the Big Tent where nobody is discriminated on the basis of his or her identity. Justice in the Big Tent treats everyone as an equal irrespective of their identity.

The Shveta Chhatra differs from the Progressives in that it will not pay lip service to greivances and historical wrongs by whitewashing them with mere apologies. 

The Shveta Chhatra stands for a solemn assurance that it will seek the Truth behind every greivance and wrong to deliver Justice and seek reconciliation.

This new Big Tent will stand out for its openness where the aggreived can speak the Truth without the fear of reprisals.

It will also stand out for its firm commitment to Justice  to provide victims with the strength to “forget”, “forgive” and “reconcile” rather than bear grudges that are held for generations to come over Justice delayed and Justice denied.

In closing this historical reference to the Shveta Chhatra sums it up rather nicely

The Shveta Chhatra or White Umbrella was a symbol of sovereign political authority placed over the monarch’s head at the time of the coronation. The ruler so inaugurated was regarded not as a temporal autocrat but as the instrument of protective and sheltering firmament of supreme law.

The white umbrella symbol is of great antiquity and its varied use illustrates the ultimate common basis of non-theocratic nature of states in the Indian tradition.

As such, the umbrella is found, although not necessarily a white one, over the head of Lord Ram, the Mohammedan sultans and Chatrapati Shivaji.

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Filed under: DesiPundit, Shveta Chhatra

169 Responses

  1. NR says:

    Karthik,

    DMK cannot afford to play too much unless it decides to go for a fresh election in the state.

  2. Tanmay says:

    I was hoping that the Left would get enough numbers to have a say in govt. formation.Its worrying that INC now has a free hand.With Obama in office,the last thing India needed was an INC govt.But we’ve got just that.

  3. Karthik says:

    @NR
    Thats true. I am not really worried abt Karuna and his family. My main concern was the CON partys habitual practice of Use and Throw attitude will be back. Allies will be treated as condoms. And the it will keep an abusinng the institutions iike Governors office,CBI and other consitiutional bodies with their newfound power. I just hope somebody keeps a check on their power to prevent that kind of abuse. I just don’t want the State leaders to become a pygmies in the national politics where “The Family” is the supreme lord of India.

  4. Umesh says:

    @Maidros,
    Your views on Muslims and christians are well taken. I dont see any reason to disagree. But, my point is that, these two will have abt 25% voteshare(Their voting %ages are higher than others to defeat BJP).

    We get practically no dalit votes, particularly in UP. This takes the share to 45%. Do you think it is probable to get abt 25% at a minimum out of the remaining 55%. Please dont farget , that, with tactical voting of the above, the share is invariably 30-35%.

    So, pandering to the hardcore constituency will not work. The Maths is all wrong. Delimitation has only made things worse. You will go the congress way soon.

    The Solution – Bring Dalits into your fold, or you will suffer.

    I’m hoping this is not off-topic, since, it does correspond to the White umbrella i.e. Become more inclusive. Start with the Dalits first.

  5. mpanj says:

    Very interesting points.

    Kind of what most voters (BJP and non-BJP) I have been speaking to have insinuated.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Unsolicited-revival-tips-for-ailing-BJP/articleshow/4561444.cms

  6. Ajay says:

    @ Balaji

    Can only say – nonsense,

    Please don’t reduce the discussion here to a farce by pasting links to unsubstantiated ramblings.

  7. maidros says:

    @Umesh,
    Your point about bringing in the Dalits is very profound. It is very true that they should be brought into the Hindu fold. They have been shamefully mistreated in the past (and are still treated that way in some places), so simple justice demands that we make up to them. However, for UP, I am not so sure. Let us discuss the UP situation in some detail.

    Christians count for very little in UP. Muslims make up about 19% of the vote, and Dalits about 23%. While it is true that Muslims tend to vote in higher numbers, it is just as true that Dalits tend to vote in lower numbers than others (for the simple reason that they cannot afford to annoy their employers who are often upper castes/Yadavs/Kurmis).

    The BJP has never had more than 35% votes in UP (even at the peak in 98), but that vote share is sufficient to win it 50 plus seats. Proof positive – Dalits and Muslims always voted tactically to defeat the BJP, but until 98, the BJP had no problems because it could count on the support of the others. It was only when the upper castes (particularly Brahmins) began to desert the BJP that it found itself in deep trouble. It is this vote that the BJP needs to regain.

    There is also another opportunity for the BJP now. With the decline of Mulayam (apart from his loss of Muslim votes, his age is also an important factor), the BJP should aim for the Yadav and other OBC votes. This will enable the BJP to regain its top spot.

    Remember, VP Singh won the majority of seats in UP with the Ajgar (Ahir, Jat, Gujjar, Rajput) support. The BJP was able to win more than 60% of the seats in UP for a number of years with the upper castes + non Yadav OBCs. Dalit support, while very useful, is not essential. With an at least three way split of votes in UP (Mayawati will retain Dalit votes, while Muslim votes will go to the Congress), if the BJP can get the bulk of votes of the upper castes and the OBCs, it should be easily able to win 65+ seats in UP. The question of course, is whether the BJP can win the confidence of the upper castes and bring Yadavs into the fold.
    Regards,
    Maidros

  8. Ajay says:

    @ maidros

    Good points.

    But I wonder why Sangh Parivar has not made effort to bring Dalits into mainstream,

    Sangh Parivar did a brilliant move decades ago, when it established Mutts for various castes. This made them feel part of Hindu society and brought about some unity among Hindus,

    Wonder why they have not emulated the model in other states.

  9. Ajay says:

    Correction Established mutts in Karnataka for various castes

  10. NR says:

    The first internal ballot to be implemented is in Uttarkhand instead of sending obeservers to solicit views.

  11. Balaji says:

    Excellent. White Umbrella now means caste politics.

    BJP doesn’t need to pander to dalits. It merely needs to stop killing them for skinning cows. And stop uttering the non-sense on cow slaughter. Cow was supposed to be the verily vedic food. “Atho annam vai gai”. And animals have caste too? Surely Cow is the Brahmin among animals. Lets eat the dalit goat and the shudra chicken. But cowhathi deserves lynching.

    And stop torturing Dalits by denying those converted to Christianity their rightful access to reservation. Funny, tribals can retain their status when they convert to Brahmanism but not when they convert to Christianity.

    yeah, lets kill Graham Staines, celebrate the missionary work of ‘Swami’ Lakshmananda, give ticket to Manoj Pradhan and finally blame the people of Orissa for not being racist enough to vote for us.

    All this white umbrella, justice for all etc will just remain hogwash, if BJP continues to have any association with any of the Sangh parivar organizations.

  12. proud Indian says:

    DMK has refused to join the MMS Cabinet…
    the reason i quote from IBN:

    “The DMK wants a repeat of the 2004 formula when for every three MPs, the DMK got one ministry. It has also demanded the so-called ATM or wet ministries – the ministries where the most money can be made. It had made a bid for key ministries including surface transport, railways, IT and communications and tourism.”

    Is this not a balant murder of democracy….

    this is more like only if one can make “enough ” buck in the specified period then he will accept the ministry…

    I felt we elected representatives so that they can form legislations to make our life easier and simpler….(janata ki seva)

    Here they are openly talking of their return on investment (election).(khud ki seva)

    So do we now ask … how much each of them “MADE” in the last 5 yrs? Where did they keep it (swiss bank)?
    Which ministries are “wet ministries”?
    What action is planned to “DRY” them off?

    But one thing friends these folks are shamelessly transparent in their intensions…

  13. Umesh says:

    @Balaji,
    THis is not votebank politics. I’m just trying to bring dalits into an Umbrella. The truth today is that, it will be a votebank compulsion which will make the so-called upper caste look inward. Otherwise sympathy will not create any value.

    @Maidros -: Will the Nitish Model of pandering to EBCs work in UP? Waiting for your answer..

  14. maidros says:

    @Balaji
    Do stop frothing at the mouth whenever someone disagrees with you. If your madness is followed and the BJP dissociates with the Sangh outfits, it will be reduced to the two seats it had in 1984. The bulk of the campaigning and groundwork is done by the Sangh outfits. But for the Sangh, the BJP will not get half the votes it gets.

    As for your whole rant about Dalits and meat eating, it is nonsensical. No one suggested killing Dalits – they are the products of your hyperactive imagination. And I thought that it was proved conclusively that the Sangh outfits had nothing to do with the killing of Staines. It seems you are borrowing a trick from the secular media. Throw a lot of mud and some of it will surely stick.

    As for Christianity, I thought that the reason why they converted was to surpass the barrier of caste and tribe. Was it not the universal brotherhood, without any reference to caste, creed and tribe that they sought when they converted? It seems that you want to have the cake and eat it as well.

    Let me assure you that very little can be done to woo them in Uttar Pradesh. Unlike idealistic dreamers like you, I am a realist and know what is possible and what is not. There is a good chance to persuade the upper castes and the Yadavs and Lodhs to vote the BJP in UP. The Dalits in UP, on the other hand, follow Mayawati and are not about to abandon her. If by some magic you can persuade them to leave her and vote the BJP, I suggest you perform that miracle instead of screaming about the Vedas and what they say.
    Regards,
    Maidros

  15. maidros says:

    @Umesh,
    It is the OBCs and EBCs that are keeping the BJP afloat in the UP. The upper castes have more or less deserted it completely. The Thakurs are split between the SP and the BJP (and now even the Congress to an extent), the Brahmins have almost all migrated to BSP, and Congress (except where the BJP fields important Brahmin candidates like Murli Manohar Joshi), the Lodhs abandoned the party with Kalyan Singh, and it seems even the Kurmis are leaving the BJP (witness the defeat of Santosh Kumar Gangwar in Bareilly). That leaves only some OBCs and EBCs along with some Banias to vote for the BJP. All in all, it is a very sad state of affairs.
    Regards,
    Maidros

  16. maidros says:

    Yoss –
    Having read over all you say, I fear your goal of including everyone may be too ambitious. There are divides in the society, on social, economic, cultural and religious lines. These are facts and aiding one side (by commission or omission) invariably means antagonising the other. Trying to straddle all societal faults, and stand on the middle is a difficult, delicate and often thankless job. You get none of the bouquets, but you do get all the brickbats. What is worse, I fear your method of including everyone inside the `big tent’ may result in everyone seeing that tent as belonging to the other (it is human nature to look more closely at what others have got, rather than what they themselves have). At the moment, your idea is more on the lines of a general policy, with few specifics visible. I will comment more once you have provided the actual implementation of your suggested policy. At the moment, the idea is replete with rhetoric, but is low on substance. Once that substance comes in, we will be able to see what the outcome will be.

    Hope to have a more clear debate with you once you have come up with actual lines of action for the BJP.
    Regards,
    Maidros

  17. Umesh says:

    @Maidros,
    You agree that, BJP is in a bad state in UP. But, there seems to be a sense of denial that The Dalit will never come to the BJP fold.

    I think efforts need to be made. Why is the RSS quiet on this? If they really want a pan-Indian Hindu rashtra then how come there is no leadership from a Dalit in UP? They seem to have made progress in MP and Other states for Dalit Mobilization. What is different about UP?

    Upper Caste(I’m one) is a fickle vote. More development leads to more demands. I say, Make efforts to be more inclusive. Otherwise BJP will go the Communist way in future. Particularly in UP.

    P.S: How did Mulayam get 23 seats if Muslims did not vote for him? I think the Muslim disenchantment is over-exxagerated.

    This discussion seems to boil down to what I heard from UP taxi drivers in Mumbai. They say, BJP in UP is not a Hindu party, but , instead a Thakur Party.

  18. maidros says:

    @Umesh,
    Muslim disenchantment with Mulayam is not yet total, but it is fast moving in that direction. In the next Assembly election, I expect the Muslims to move more decisively to the Congress. Muslims were hesitant in the current elections because they were not sure who else the Congress could attract. Now that they have seen the Congress capable of winning elections, they will move more confidently to the Congress.

    Further, Mulayam was, in the just concluded Lok Sabha elections, compensated to an extent by Lodh mobilisation in his favour – witness the thumping margin with which Kalyan won in Etah, the heart of Lodh territory. The SP was also able to snatch away Bulandshahr (Kalyan Singh’s pocket borough) from the BJP. The perceived humiliation of Kalyan Singh by Rajnath and Co. has outraged many of the Lodh and they voted overwhelmingly for Mulayam. But Mulayam’s star is waning, and worst of all, age is not on his side. The Congress and BJP are not one man parties, and will always have a reasonable base. Mayawati is young yet (by Indian politics terms) and is perceived as having a future in front of her. However, time is fast running out for Mulayam and Kalyan and their sons are not as effective as their fathers. If the BJP works fast smartly, it can get both the Yadav and the Lodh votebanks since both the groups will be left without effective leaders five years from now. It will require bringing in both groups into Sangh fold by addressing their concerns and allowing leaders to develop from the communities (it would folly of the first order for the BJP to try to impose leaders that favour the party from above).

    As for persuading the Dalits, the problem is that Mayawati has a vice like grip over them. I cannot think of a way to break her hold over the Dalit vote. Dalits believe that Mayawati is their messiah and have full faith in her. I can’t see what the BJP can offer them to get their vote.

    Finally, the BJP is a Thakur party if you ask Brahmins, it is a Brahmin party if you ask Banias, and it is a Bania party if you ask OBCs. The BJP does not have a complete hold on any one community. The truth of the matter is that the BJP is only getting the vote of the Sangh faithful – the ones that won’t migrate to the Congress or the BSP because they believe in Hindutva and even they vote reluctantly because they have no other alternative (all the remaining parties hanker after the Muslim vote shamelessly). This is why the BJP vote has stagnated around 17-18% of the vote in the last two to three elections.

    The BJP has no inspirational leader in UP. Rajnath Singh gets the undivided credit for having sacrificed the party for his personal ambitions. As long as Rajnath and his cohorts remain in control, the BJP will remain weak and powerless. But the truth is that the BJP has no really strong leader to rally behind in UP.
    Regards,
    Maidros

  19. Anand says:

    Just to share my thought that during Mr. Vajpayee’s rule we did not see any special attention to Hindu’ cuase except MM Joshi’s work in HRD. And I am pretty sure none of the then allies would have any objections had BJP tried to improve the condition of River Ganga, provide better facility at religious place.

  20. mpanj says:

    @maidros

    I read someplace that even Mayawati’s dalit vote has started to drift towards the congress along with the Brahmin vote.

    Come the next assembly election, Congress might have recovered its traditional vote bank – Dalits, Brahmins and Muslims.

    I doubt either Dalits or Brahmins will come to the BJP unless serious work is done on the ground to bring about visible social change.

    This may not take a decade. Any visible change will be reflected in election results even if its not 100%. Even 20% will help.

  21. mpanj says:

    Folks,

    we have a Obama like figure that can take, not just UP but also North India by storm.

    Baba Ramdev.

    If you observe him closely and follow his political ambitions, this guy is arguably an incredibly sharp political mind.

    He isnt your usual religious figure.

    Here are some reasons why BR could be the man:

    1. He has no know party affiliations
    2. His brand equity is established and incredibly powerful
    3. He is a self made man.
    4. He is young (in his early 40s I believe)
    5. He was born a Yadav, but has achieved something few celebrities can (he transcends caste, language, etc.)
    6. He worships Mother India and has never used his Yogic powers to convert non-hindus or spread hatred against minorities
    7. His Patanjali Peeth is a money making machine
    8. Which in turn acts as a source of immense financial power allowing him to take stands that are not compromised by the need for money bags.

    9. But above all he is completely non-corrupt and selfless in his pursuits.

    I think the Sangh should force BJP to support BR in the 5 Bimaru states. I bet the babalog appeal will disappear in a matter of years.

    But support does not mean lip service. BR must be given a free hand to pick candidates, dictate strategy, etc.

    He for one does not support hardline Hindutva. His social change based, Hindutva/nationalism is the perfect solution we may be looking for.

  22. Sakthi says:

    Yoss, accepting the Swetha Chakra theory but who is propagating it.. The progressiveness is not westernisation or Christinisation of Bharath. And again, We still need a white skin to rule us.. really a shame only. I agree with your veiw points but it will be on paper only you have twittered that Hindu Temple will be released from Government control is it going to be a reality.. Whose propagation is this? Sounds good any way…

  23. Balaji says:

    All this claim of Sangh being the reason BJP gets votes is just a myth. Or atleast in Karnataka. Sangh activists form only about 30% of the campaigners. Guys, we are the best performing BJP unit in the country. We know what we are doing.

    If even some of the BJP supporters who supposedly claim to be moderates come to the field, Sangh can be shown its place in the doghouse.

    What is the point in discussing a White Umbrella without properly analyzing ideas practiced by the likes of Advani and Modi and the agenda of the Sangh Parivar? Why do you all think ideology is about getting the perfect caste formula?

    I have been commenting on Yossarin’s blog for over 3 years. And the response from the Hindutva crowd has always been the same. “non-sense”, “Comrade Balaji”, “DMK guy” etc. BJP supporters are like Pakistan. Always living in denial.

    As I said there are two factions in the BJP, one consisting who believe in Hindutva and the other Humanists who ofcourse believe in Integral Humanism. And the only person from the BJP who has ever captured the imagination of the Indian masses, Vajpayee was a humanist. And in Sushma Swaraj we have a credible humanist successor. Its now time for the BJP to choose between Hindutva and Intergral Humanism. We can no-longer ride the twin horses.

  24. Bhanu says:

    I have 2 suggestions:

    1) Instead of dividing people, on the basis of caste, why not identify them as special interest groups, such as farmer, labourers, factory worker, students, entrepreneurs, housewives, businessmen, service people etc. Identify these groups and their specific problems and go about providing solutions to them regardless of caste and religion. I think this would resonate more in urban areas.

    2) In rural, semi – rural areas where caste really comes into play make sure that tickets are given to prominent and successful candidates in addition to doing a bit of identifying and targetting the special interest groups mentioned before.

    But both require a deep study of demographics in particular caste, education, income and employment factors.

  25. RamuPlayers says:

    Oh my god this balaji is a hoot. Yoss please annoint him as the court jester of this forum.

    Sushma is a humanist? sure sure make her Saint Sushma . You need some history lesson my friend and one of them relates to 2004 when Sushma wanted to tonsure her head and wear Cotton saris and eat only Seeds if Sonia becomes the PM. This farcial act of hers was hailed as one the biggest comic acts in the history of Indian politics and you are hell bent of promoting Sushma here without any basis. Why dont you educate us on her credentials balaji?

  26. hUmDiNgEr says:

    So much for the victory of democracy.
    CON is planning to bring back emergency days and people accuse BJP of fascist mentality.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Govt-gearing-up-to-gag-news-websites/articleshow/4562292.cms

    I don’t know why the “free press” in India make an issue out of it. After all it effects them more than anyone else.

  27. shrirang says:

    The BJP should continue to raise issues like money in Swiss Banks, Quattrocchi clean chit and growing influence of Taliban in Pakistan in the parliament.
    Otherwise the people will feel that these issues were raised merely for gaining votes.

  28. maidros says:

    @Balaji,
    The Sangh did not campaign either in Rajasthan Assembly elections or in the present Lok Sabha elections in Rajasthan. Vasundhara froze them out and they simply accepted her decision and stayed away. And in the present elections, even she was hemmed in in Jhalawar, her own constituency. Without the Sangh around to take up the slack, and without Vasundhara to campaign for the party, you saw the results.

    Where did you get the statistics for the Sangh activists in Karnataka? Can you please post how you did your survey and came out with the conclusion? Can you also kindly enlighten us why the BJP keeps winning in the Sangh strongholds like the coastal area, but is never certain in other areas?

    Your idea of Brahmanical politics as opposed to `integral humanism’ is merely in your own mind. You seem to associate the worst evils of castes with `Brahmanism’. This is the single most pernicious comment, one worthy of Goebbels. Pray where in `Brahmanism’ does it say that it is okay to oppress the lower castes? Or the fascism you keep ranting about?

    Pray, Balaji, do enlighten me about the `Brahmanical agenda’ you keep waxing eloquent about. What exactly does it say and please tell me how you equate it with fascism? And if the BJP and the Sangh are following a `Brahmanical agenda’, why are the Brahmins deserting the BJP in droves in UP, Rajasthan and even Bihar?

    As for castes, they are a reality in the Hindi heartland. People have learnt to bargain on the basis of their caste identities. A long spell of development where there is plenty for everyone might help reduce the impact of castes, but it has been around for a long time and will be around for some more time to come.

    By the way, I support Sushma for the leader of the opposition as well (she is the best we have for the moment). She is articulate, and capable, but there is a huge problem with her. She is no vote getter. For proof, you need look no further than the very fact that she goes around looking for safe seats, and cannot win a single seat in her own home state, Haryana. Can you please tell me one area where she can be the star campaigner and win seats for the BJP? She contested in Vidisha, a Sangh stronghold, ironically, and one which was being represented by Vajapayee for quite a long time.
    Regards,
    Maidros

  29. Admin says:

    RamuPlayers,

    http://sushmaji.wordpress.com/

    thats a fan page I have created for her. atleast someone has got to try and rescue BJP from the fascists.

    and u can read her credentials here:

    http://sushmaji.wordpress.com/about/
    http://sushmaji.wordpress.com/bjps-suicide-bomber/

    Sushma’s theatrics in 2004 and her stupid “Congress is bombing cities” are noted. But what Indian electorate has categorically said this time is, ‘we are willing to forgive minor lapse of judgments provided the person is decent and credible’. Decent and Credible, two words no one will associate with Advani or Modi.

  30. Sudhir says:

    off-Topic

    http://ibnlive.in.com/news/ministers-of-scam-why-pm-doesnt-want-raja-baalu/93126-37.html

    And the fun begins….. IBNLIVE kept quiet when the scam actually happened in the last term of UPA and now when the DMK is throwing tantrums IBN is saying that Baalu and Raja were corrupt.

    Weren’t they part of the honest hard working MMS ministry.

  31. Jiggs says:

    Shrirang….

    Yes..BJP must not jettison the issues as they have lost the elections.

    The role of the opposition is like that of a watch dog. They must keep on persisting without any boycotts or walk outs in the Parliament.

    Instead BJP must ask its state units to mobilize support to pressurize the government to act.

    No government will tolerate a people’s movement supporting an opposition party.

  32. Balaji says:

    Sudhir,

    can you get out of the trivial politics please. we just got the worst drubbing in over two decades. its time for introspection. and this Yossarin post is about White Umbrella, a new path for the BJP or atleast the Indian Right.

  33. Jiggs says:

    Oye fellas….

    Both BJP and RSS are to be blamed for this debacle. This is a known fact.

    RSS must stop micro managing the BJP, RSS must stop insisting tickets for their cadres unless they are well known in the specific areas, RSS must stop insisting on PLUM posts in the BJP think tank and party units.

    The long time Grass Root Workers of the BJP, too have aspirations and they must be rewarded.

    In short RSS must manage the Sangh Pariwar and not the BJP. Why does not the RSS compel Singhal of VHP to step down and appoint a new leader there first?

    BJP is a party for the middle classes, who are equal stake holders in the party, it is the middle class that should call the shots and not the RSS.

  34. Jiggs says:

    @Balaji…

    Drubbing is part of the game, dont be such a weak person.

    What Sudhir has pointed out but failed to put properly is that the people who voted the Congress this time, are now openly saying that if giving them 200 seats does not make them strong then we made a mistake by voting them.

    Start living in reality and stop this Double talk of yours.

  35. Sudhir says:

    I hope that people of Bengal do not suffer in this fight for electoral supremacy between the Left and TC.

    http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/may/22/left-adopts-standstill-poliocy-on-industrialisation.htm


    A 120-acre city centre in Kharagpur, about 100 km from Kolkata, became the first casualty of the CPI-M-led Left Front government’s poor showing in the recent general elections. More such projects are likely to be cancelled as the four-party Left coalition, which has ruled the state since 1977, decided to opt for a “standstill policy” on industrial projects.”

  36. venkatesh says:

    Balaji,

    I cant really figure you out. Sometimes you talk a lot of sense and sometimes so much bullshit that it makes me wonder, if you are the same person!!

    Your stuff on Brahminism is a load of crap that I dont even feel like defending. Did you go to a Catholic school by any chance? You almost sound like a rabid mullah or a christian evangelical

  37. Sharat says:

    @mpanj
    Baba Ramdev is quite a nationalist and to top it an Anti-Communist.

    He has not publicly supported BJP but his views do have a similarity with views of BJP specially the Issue of bringing black money worth 75,00,000 rs kept in swiss banks back to where it belongs.

  38. Balaji says:

    >> Did you go to a Catholic school by any chance? You almost sound like a rabid mullah or a christian evangelical

    >> Balaji the official jester of this blog

    >> your bigoted Dravidian

    didn’t I say, this is what I have been getting for several years?

    humdinger,

    >> Have you read about the ecological and environmental feasibility of the project?

    you may wanna ask that to Vajpayee who approved the project. if you wanna oppose the project from the ecology standpoint, please do. I contribute 1000 bucks to Greenpeace every month. I wud approve.

  39. prashant says:

    @sharat

    just one query if Baba Ramdev has strong following…then why he failed in getting VHP man from winning LS seat of Haridwar,the Headoffice of Baba Ramdev.

    I had lived 2 years from 2002-2004 in HARIDWAR,and the fact is HE is considered as CORPORATE businessman by people of haridwar.

    My point is Leader must be that who can Lead,motivate,honest,administer well.

  40. Umesh says:

    @Balaji,
    Dude, I’ve never called you names. But, If you contribute 1000 bucks to Greenpeace every month, then, I’m sure, some of them were worth it.

    Tell me, what does Greenpeace actually do?
    They have been blasting a port project in Orissa complaining aboput Olive ridley turtles destruction.
    What is the truth?

    a) They have faked reports to prove it.
    b) They dont mention about the increased O.R. turtles nesting activities, while they were hyping up minor decreases in nexting for last 4 years.
    c) They call themsleves experts, but, they dont even know that O.R. Turtles mate once in 4 years.

    I would say, they are another of the leftist groups.

    How much propaganda have they done on Ram setu project, which is supposed to also harm OLive ridley turtles. They just wanna screw Orissa’s development.

    Dude, get a life. If you wanna talk abt Greenpeace, then , send me a mail. I will explain. ACtually, let us meet up. I’m in bangalore, now. I can tell you many horror stories abt Greenpeace.

    Hopefully, now, Nishka will not blast me..MY apologies if I’ve bee too harsh.

  41. Balaji says:

    Umesh,

    I know Greenpeace is a leftwing group. I know the Tata project controversy. AID again is a leftwing group to which I donate. Its easy being cynical but too difficult to hit the field and get something done. I support Greenpeace for all the good-initiatives they do.

    The same case with BJP. There is too much I find objectionable in the BJP. But there is a whole lot that I appreciate and think is good for the country. We don’t live in Utopia. We need to support good people and organizations even if they have flaws.

  42. prashant says:

    @balaji

    just curious to know if u will support SIMI/LET also for wat “Good work they may have done” at least for their communities.

    wat ever be your reply i will not respond as i know your main agenda is to derail the topics from Development to Hindutva.

  43. hUmDiNgEr says:

    Yoss,

    I request you to delete/moderate comments that spew venom on religions may it be Hinduism/Islam/Christianity/paganism/animsins/Brahmanism/ whatever it may be. Please allow constructive criticism but not allegations. These things simply derail the discussion and waste the bytes in cyberspace.

  44. Balaji says:

    yeah, censor it!

    anyway the following are, according to me, the founding principles of a conservative, humanist, right wing party. If BJP does not want to observe them, too bad.

    I may one day start that right-wing party myself. If I can campaign for BJP, why not for a party I agree with? yeah, this party will probably not even make it to the ballot let alone get a single vote. but whats wrong in trying?

    1. Espousing free market principles.

    Abolition of all monopolies including and especially Government monopolies. Every PSU shall be listed on the stock markets. Government will not stand in the way of business. Ex: allow private players to enter terrestrial broadcasting. Government recognizes the fierce urgency of alleviating the poverty of its citizens in their own lifetime.

    2. Conservative Economics and Fiscal responsibility.

    Low interest rate regime. Discouraging immoral loans like Credit cards, Home loan, car loans etc. Easy credit for farmers, industry, students and self-help groups.

    3. Secularism.

    Government recognizes no religion and will not interfere in the religious activities of its citizens under any circumstance. No tax benefits for religious institutions. Temples like Tirupati to pay 35% corporate income tax on their earnings. Abolition of Haj Subsidy and Waqf boards. Having said this all religious places of historical importance shall be owned by the government but run by autonomous bodies. Governmet re-affirms the right of Indian nationals to preach and convert others to whatever religion they like. But foreign nationals found in missionary activity shall be arrested and deported. Foreign donations to Indian religious institutions will be illegal.

    4. Uniform Civil code.

    All citizens of the country are equal in the eyes of the law. Gays cannot adopt/raise children even if the child is born of the sperm/womb of one of the parents. But homosexuality is not illegal. The state has no role to play in the sexual preference of its citizens. Its only concerned about the emotional and social upbringing of child citizens of India. State recognizes marriage as the union of a male and female (one each) citizens.

    5. Rule of Law and the Constitution.

    No more abusing Election Commission, CBI, Governors post. Supreme Court will not be allowed to legislate from the bench.

    6. Recognizing and adhering to the federal nature of the Indian Union.

    Abolition of article 370 and 356. No central govt can dismiss a state govt. Governors appointed by Central govt will have to be ratified by the respective state legislature with a two-thirds majority.

    7. Respect for life.

    Abolition of death sentence. Espousal of ethical eating. Recommending the killing of animals and plants (for food or any other purpose except in self-defence) to be treated as a punishable offence.

    8. Practicing caste system of any kind punishable by law.

    No educational institution can ask any student which caste or religion he/she blongs to. A campaign against using caste and varna names as surnames (yadav, jha, sharma, gupta, verma, thakur).

    9. Freedom of speech.

    Abolition of laws that inhibit the freedom of speech like “speech provoking communal disharmony” etc. Citizens are free to burn the national flag and the constitution, if they want to.

    10. Humanism.

    Non-violence and peace as foreign policy tools. Disclosing the current stockpile of nuclear weapons. Signing the CTBT. Signing the NPT provided they let us replenish our constant and pre-disclosed nuclear weapon stockpile.

  45. hUmDiNgEr says:

    Balaji,

    I wish all the best for your party and hope you be successful.
    But I could not control this, you party follows “the 10 commandments” … wowww :P

  46. hUmDiNgEr says:

    http://barbarindians.blogspot.com/2009/05/bjp-lost-because-of-its-divisive.html

    I think Barbar is one of the few who understood what BJP stood for and what failed them in this election.

  47. Vivek says:

    You implement point number 3, and I am sure that you would face the same consequence as Theodore Van Gogh! Muslims are almost 150 million in India!

    BTW coming back to the white umbrella, wouldnt some of these points come up in what Yossarin has pointed out? Lets wait for Yoss to clarify!

    Balaji, please rest your anti-brahminism discourse, its all non-sensical rhetoric! Please, arent the already available insinuations on brahmins enough? Arent there two many divisions in hindu community itself? Why do you want to invent new ones? Please rest the attrocious verbal abuse!

  48. NR says:

    It would be better if we stop this useless discussion and better discuss something related to BJP or the ideas being proposed by yoss.

  49. Vivek says:

    Balaji,

    I would like to but then this is not the forum to do it. I come here to learn and discuss about the developments and possible directions of right wing politics because I care. So peace!

  50. hUmDiNgEr says:

    Yoss,

    I would like to chip in with some thoughts on the structure of the Shweta Chhatra.
    I think the framework can be designed in keeping mind :
    1. Objective (s)
    2.Benchmarking ( are we taking any existing or assumed model to be the best available)
    3.Scope of the framework
    4.Limitations of the framework
    5.Data ( can we do any research here)
    6.Assumptions

    If we are clear on the above parameters, I think we can come up with a framework that is workable.I hope you take some of the insights from Arthashastra.

  51. Ajay says:

    Balaji should be happy, looks like a consensus is emerging for Sushma Swaraj as LOP after Advani

  52. Ajay says:

    Seriously Sandeep quotes Koenraad Elst when analyzing BJP’s poll debacle.

    I like Koenraad Elst’s title for the article,

    “BJP apes Congress, fails”

    Very appropriate,

  53. venkatesh says:

    Maidros,

    Super comments.

  54. NR says:

    An interesting stat doled out by toi for bjp in bihar.

    Despite winning 7 seats more while contesting one seat less, BJP vote share has fallen to 13.93 from 14.75 per cent in 2004.

  55. NR says:

    ajay where did you read the LoOp LS consensus news.

  56. hUmDiNgEr says:

    Balaji,

    I don’t want to derail this discussion but I want you to know this about Setu Samudram project and why people are opposing it, even your allegation that Vajpayee Govt. approved it.

    “The Union Government of India appointed the Sethu Samudram Project Committee in 1955, headed by Dr. A. Ramasamy Mudaliar, which was charged with the duty of examining the desirability of the project. After evaluating the costs and benefits, this committee found the project feasible and viable. However it has strongly recommended land based passage instead of channel cutting through Ram’s bridge due to several advantages of land based passage like Shifting sandbanks, Ability to prevent navigational hazards etc.[7]. Several reviews of the proposals followed. Finally, the United Progressive Alliance Government of India headed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh announced the inauguration of the project on July 2, 2005.”–from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sethusamudram_Shipping_Canal_Project

    And the most pertinent reason to oppose this project is economical. You must know that any project should earn the money spent on it. But, the problem with this project is there is no revenue stream for this project.

    “At the present tariff rates, ships from Africa and Europe will lose $ 4,992 on every voyage, as the savings in time for these ships are considerably lower that what is calculated in the DPR. This loss is significant as 65% of the projected users of the canal are those from Africa and Europe. If tariffs are lowered to a point where ships from Africa and Europe will not lose any money from using the canal, the IRR of the project falls to 2.6%. This is a level at which even public infrastructure projects are rejected by the government.

    Depth envisaged for this canal is designed for ships with weight of 30000 tonnes and less. Most of the new generation ships (with weight more than 60000 tonnes and tankers with weight above 150000 tonnes) cannot make use of this canal”

    I think you know what is IRR 2.6% means, not even a bankrupt company would do such projects.
    The cost benefit analysis was done by Govt in 1955 and they are still holding it good.
    If none of the new vessels ( most are 60000 tonnes) don’t use this, why the hell am I building this port?

  57. Sootradhaar says:

    @Maidros…Simply superb rebuttal to Balaji’s innuendos. Awesome bandhu! :D

  58. Balaji says:

    humdinger,

    I have already said that opposing Sethu canal on economical and ecological reasons is fine with me. But bringing Ram into the picture was totally unnecessary and merely a Sangh Parivar conspiracy to give legitimacy to a Brahmanical Ram myth.

  59. Vivek says:

    Digression! Please get back to the core discussion!

    Found these links:
    http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0606-10.htm

    http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDesc.asp?catid=93&type=issue

    There is a sense that progressives generally tend ot be leftist. May be thats the reason why UPA could deal with left by managing some differences.

    Where does congress stand in its approach? Still trying to figure out!

  60. bloggerind says:

    Yoss – Request you to moderate such derogatory/false comments.

  61. Balaji says:

    humdinger,

    I don’t why Brahmanism if off topic, when thats the ideology of the Sangh Parivar. If BJP moves away from Sangh Parivar (assuming it chooses to), Brahmanism is likely to be the cause.

  62. dark lord says:

    Balaji

    I think you have succeeded in getting some response along with the usual “comrade Balaji” comments. AFAIK, Balaji is the only one who has actually gone canvassing for BJP in Bangalore and Chennai.

  63. offstumped says:

    All the thread has been hijacked by some irrelevant discussion on theology. I will be deleting some of those comments.

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